Achievement Farmers: Be Warned! Server admins are fighting back! We discuss a very controversial subject with special guest msleeper.
- Read all about msleeper’s TF2 honeypot
- [SONG] “Mr.Demoman” by IDrinkYourMilkshake
- [SONG] “Story of a Steam Roll (Stop Pissing Me Off)” by AshWilliams
- F7Lans Gaming Community
- [VIDEO] Gary Schwartz as The Heavy
- [VIDEO] Gary Schwartz as The Demoman
04/08/09
Oh my god, I think I was on the losing team of the Turbine steam roll. Not a good feeling.
04/08/09
For someone who thinks all this ISN’T a big deal, he sure has put a lot of work and effort into it.
04/08/09
msleeper is a tool.
04/08/09
About the immunity for paying community members: “The reason it’s there is because it’s built into the plugin”.
Uh …
04/08/09
You can tell Brent wants to murder this guy. =)
04/08/09
Brent VS Msleeper ’09
04/08/09
I’d like to see -every- server ban Msleeper, for some random reason. Unless he pays you of course. Everyone knows you don’t ban ‘cheaters’ who pay you.
“The Chris Hanson picture is funny” – Douche bag.
04/08/09
Hahaha some of this guy’s arguements FAILED so bad I laughed.
Some interesting points, though.
04/08/09
Haha, MSleeper is tool.
04/08/09
The entire argument is flawed. The unlockable weapons aren’t an advantage when used by an inexperienced player who farmed them. A good (honest) player who uses standard weapons against a weaker player who farmed the unlockables will win every time.
So the argument that honest players are forced to themselves “cheat” to stay competitive is not an argument at all. Next you know, we’ll see people who earned the unlockables properly banned because they did it quicker than this idiot.
04/09/09
Yeah, for a guy who doesn’t take TF2 very seriously, he sure is uptight about how people should play the game.
04/09/09
Props to MSleeper for turning up and airing his opinion on why it was made, doesn#’t seem like the maker original intent was malicious but, feedback on work is always handy.
I think that the show has certainly helped to shape how their server plugin will evolve.
Thanks once again for an awesome podcast
04/09/09
That was actually what I was thinking about FlamingPeasant. If he’s so casual why does he even care?
04/09/09
Yeah, I don’t get it. And the whole ‘no advertising’ spray thing. Seriously? Does he really think that he is going to lose regulars that way? I mean you would need to lose a significant chunk of player base for that to even register. You guys shouldn’t have had him on, cause now listeners know other servers exist and might not play in yours, oh noes!!1!
I like active admins, but you can take it too far. There is a fine line between administration and a power trip.
This all seems like a tempest in a teacup though. I’d be interested to know how many people on that list ever knew they got banned from anything. I’m guessing not many.
Kudos to him for coming on.
04/09/09
Near as I can tell, he’s very serious about being casual, and wants to ensure that only casual or casual-compatible people are on his servers. Unfortunately that’s impossible.
If I remember right, one of his arguments was something like “imagine you had my opinion about keeping farmers out … isn’t this a good way to go about it?” That’s a bogus premise because the end is not legitimately achievable without doing something like entrapping people with a baited server, and therefore the goal should be abandoned. If I felt as strongly about farmers as he does, I would have to say “it sucks but I can’t keep the farmers out. They’re not cheating and that’s life.”
04/09/09
Seriously, what’s wrong with him? I get it that he hate people who farm achievements, but why the hell he tries to force his opinion on everybody else? The fraking unlockables are “alterate” weapons, not “upgrade”. What does it matter that others have the new weapons before you do? It’s not like you are at a disadvantage.
This episode is just bad, by having such a nutjob as guest host.
04/09/09
this guy sounds similar to a religious nut at times
04/10/09
In some way..he makes me remind of Jack Thompson. Not saying he is that douch. But still….Can us just have some fun.
Unlocks are not actually make you more powerful, when scout unlock came out, I am still using the good old scattergun and goaround killing people with Force-A-Nature and Sandman.
Brent is angrieeeeeeee!
04/11/09
He claims its for ‘casual play’ but surely having fun with some friends on an achievment server, getting angry with each other, realising that the achievment you’ve been farming was unlocked hours ago before eventually rage quitting and playing Left 4 dead.
Farming I believe is very casual but boring and as frustrating as being castrated by crayola plastic scissors.
Msleeper comes across as an arrogant man who as fun as it would be to question his sexuality I’m not going to (I’m a takin’ the high road). I do give him his due for coming on the podcast and showing his opinion.
P.S i think you can hear brent’s rage slowly building while Msleeper talks…Just listen closely
04/11/09
One of the best Episodes ever :3
I’m shamed that I missed it Live >.<
04/11/09
Who says “you know” 8 times
within 60 seconds.
I couldn’t concentrate on most of the stuff he was talking about because the “you know”s were too distracting.
04/11/09
LOL, he linked to this page on his site. Click on the red in
Server Admins – You can help STOP achievement farming!
“I have written a Honeypot server-side SourceMod plugin which can help identify and automatically ban people who farm achievements in achievement maps. As a server or community administrator, you may feel that you do not want those who would farm achievements to play on your servers. Using my plugin is an effective means of attracting some of those people who would do this, and stop them from ever reaching your server’s front door. This plugin is not for everyone, and many people seem to find the mere practice of using it controversial. Using this plugin is drawing a line in the sand for what has become a common, even welcomed practice. Be prepared to be disliked for enforcing honesty. The word achievement doesn’t mean “dick around in a map for 45 minutes and earn unlockables”
04/11/09
Scuse the double post, but the podcast made him remove the list!
04/12/09
I come back and listen to a control point episode to see if there’s any big changes, and I find hear someone who’s made a plugin blocking off players as bad as any blanket policy enforced at most workplaces with internet capabilities.
The fact that you block off people WHO MAY NOT be total faggots who brag about their unlocks, and may be an lawfully upholding person who get it over and done with, without them realizing, or any notification bar them from a server is somewhat ruling out their say without the benefits of being a benevolent dictator, as you might think yourself as. This isn’t kill one, save a thousand my friend.
As pointed out by Wes in the episode, there are CLEAR-CUT achievements no one will EVER achieve without some form of co-operation/playful dickery coming from both teams.
Furthermore most weapon unlocks are balanced, most of them are side grades, the exception in my honest opinion being, the KGB, the Ubersaw, The Sandman (radically different mechanic), The Axtinguisher.
My main problem is that you say it’s a liberal process, they can simply appeal to have their ID taken off. 9/10 people won’t even realize why they were banned, there’s a name we give (maybe only in Australia then)to a process of acceptance and greater state of mind around here, it’s called forgiveness. By being aggro at a few people, a minority of a large demographic group, and therefore acting on that rash judgment to rule out the whole range, you are being blunt, insensitive and unreasonable, throwing up hysteria and promoting unwanted, un-needed behavior.
If you ask me, there will ALWAYS be asshats, no matter what group, height, age, race, whatever, the best you and any server admin/mod can do it is ban them when they pop up, ala whack-a-mole. By encouraging and therefore influencing people to enforce a blanket policy in a GAME (it doesn’t take a genius to connect one and one) by the means of this plugin even existing, you make yourself no better than the so-called offenders.
If you effectively ban people from servers with these farmed unlocks, you might as well ban everyone with them. And if you ban everyone with them, I might as well step into my garden and shoot myself in the foot.
It’s so-called small and innocent projects that the people who are responsible think they have good intentions but are on the astronomically stupid scale of the universe is why we can’t have nice things.
04/12/09
msleeper reminds me of Tim Buckley. Good show, I love how Brent gets steadily more pissed as the episode wears on! Good Jeaaarreaeraearorearb, Douche-Nozzle!
04/13/09
Arguing with msleeper seemed like a complete exercise in futility. It became clear fairly early on that the guy thought he was right because he was right because he was right. His only argument against farming was that he didn’t like it, thus it was cheating. Bunch of bollocks the whole thing….
04/13/09
After hearing him talk about it, I guess it really doesn’t matter too much. Sure, his execution is flawed but if he just handles it better when he does it next time it shouldn’t be an issue.
04/13/09
If VALVe were trying to fix this “Cheating” Iam pretty sure they would make the achievements only achieveable via VALVe maps.
04/13/09
I gotta give credit to MSleeper for standing by his opinions in the public line of fire…
…and credit to Control Point for conducting a fair and balanced discussion….
…best CP Podcast ever…
…compelling broadcasting…great work!
04/17/09
at Flail comment its true. He’s real damn single minded…. i would no; our clan (NOM) used to be the css division of F7. We left because of him.
As for farming achievements…. if you want the gun go nuts who cares
04/23/09
At about 1 hour in you have an arguement about Brent’s ‘spray ban’ and “losing community” because of the advertising.
My take on msleeper’s side is that he was more worried about people leaving the game in the middle and disrupting the flow of the game (and causing rage over the autoswapping).
Gotta say though, I didn’t find the rest of his arguements too convincing.
Good show, chaps!
12/12/09
I must say, MSleeper sounds like he just escaped from the loony bin.